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Friend had an AD.
#1
Poor guy shot himself in the leg.

He was getting into a vehicle and the grip caught the door jam of the car so he stopped, pulled his shirt back and pushed on the back of the grip with his palm. The holster pulled the trigger.

The holster was made of Kydex. Apparently Kydex starts breaking down as soon as it's formed. Most retention is built around the trigger guard. In this case the holster flexed and operated the trigger. The same type of discharge was able to be reproduced later.

If you own a Kydex holster I would check it regularly for excessive flexing.
Where can you carry? Check the editable COGO Carry Map
When in doubt. JFC.

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#2
was this a homemade? Ive used a raven and a bladetech for quite a long time and not had any issues
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#3
If you could supply the make and model of the friend's kydex holster, that would be great.
"If you got to shoot, shoot! Don't talk!" -Tuco Ramirez-
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#4
He is withholding that info while seeking legal advice. When I know you'll know.
Where can you carry? Check the editable COGO Carry Map
When in doubt. JFC.

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#5
Any update on the holster that was involved in this incident? I don't typically use fully kydex holsters, but I do have a couple Comp-Tac MTAC hybrid holsters that I use.

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#6
Wow! That's pretty crazy!

I don't normally use Kydex holsters, but I do own a few for OCing certain guns.
Looking at them now I'm having a hard time figuring out how it could activate my trigger without me being a bit careless? Not that I'm trying to rag on your friend or anything Beau, I'm just not sure how it could happen with the ones I own. Dunno

And FWIW, I would tell him to let the "legal" thoughts go if it were me.
For one, there's WAY too many variables to positively find the maker responsible for the ND in court IMO.
And secondly, I think too many people look to blame someone else for anything and everything that happens to them in life. What ever happened to living and learning? With an emphasis on the "living" part for your lucky friend. wink

Don't get me wrong on this part either.......I'm not saying your friend was an idiot or got what he deserves or something along those lines. I'm just saying he was lucky to not have something worse happen to him or someone around him.
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#7
I've heard of someone stating that they were able to create a similar situation with a Comp-Tac MTAC. I have a Spartan from Comp-Tac and have tried very hard to get the kydex inside the trigger guard and haven't been able to do it.
- Tim
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#8
This is the response after he read the posts here.

Quote:i read through the thread on cogo. I'm not going to respond in the thread since I have the same user name on other forums, so I'll give it to you to pass on.




I can see the contour of the trigger molded into the kydex when examined under sufficient lighting. None of my extremeties, or foreign objects, were near the trigger at the time of the incident. How could it be a ND when the gun was INSIDE the holster? The firearms and holster were not modified in any way. The trigger pull INSIDE the holster has been recreated more than once buy doing nothing more than reholstering with pressure on the holster. The issue here is that the holster was formed too tight around the trigger guard; I can literally squeeze both sides until they touch.

Where can you carry? Check the editable COGO Carry Map
When in doubt. JFC.

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#9
Hmmmmmm Still seems strange to me.
But I still stick to my comments above. If the holster is designed that way or his was just an anomoly, he still should've made sure it was safe to use. I still don't see it as the makers responsibility to ensure even the most uninformed or lackadaisical can use their products safely.
And again, I'm not saying he's an idiot or anything. Just saying it was (and still is) his responsibility to ensure his gear was safe to use. If it's not and he has an ND because of it then that onus is on him IMO.
Too many things have gone that route these days IMO. You can only regulate so much before someone finds another way to sue for something they themselves can control. Personal responsibility seems to be a long forgotten skill anymore. :-/
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#10
I would still like to know the manufacturer and model of the holster in question. I don't understand the use of a holster where the following applies:

"The issue here is that the holster was formed too tight around the trigger guard..."

If that is the case, the user should have verified the safe use of the holster prior to using it. I won't say that no responsibility falls on the holster manufacturer, but I don't feel that all of it does. We all need to take the time to verify that our equipment is in good working order. It is always recommended that anytime you get a new holster that you first try it with an unloaded firearm. This would included holstering and drawing several times to help ensure that something like this doesn't happen. If the holster is older, it is still important to make sure that it hasn't degraded to the point that it should no longer be used.

I hope that your friend is OK and has no long term effects from this incident. I also hope that he comes to accept that at least some of the blame falls on his shoulders.

Just my :twocents: .

(08-25-2011, 11:45 AM)Ape Wrote: Personal responsibility seems to be a long forgotten skill anymore. :-/

Too true!!!
Duct tape is like "The Force." It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
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#11
it is the sole responsibility of the shooter to insure the firearm(s) and all components and accessories are in safe working order.

I have thrown away holsters that I did not feel were safe.
There never was a bad man that had ability for good service.

-Edmund Burke 1788-02-15

Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live.
Life never forgives weaknesses.
-Adolf Hitler
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#12
(08-25-2011, 05:45 PM)Byte Stryke Wrote: it is the sole responsibility of the shooter to insure the firearm(s) and all components and accessories are in safe working order.

I have thrown away holsters that I did not feel were safe.

Absolutely agree.
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#13
First of all, I am that guy. Second, unless any of you are kydex experts, please refrain from making ignorant comments.

The holster was three months old and was made for this gun. I checked the fit, draw, and holstering well before the incident. I ran it through its paces at the range on numerous occasions, and there were no causes for concern. Upon closer inspection, the standoff from the trigger averages 2mm. Kydex is commonly formed at just over 200 degrees F. The day of the incident it was 95 degrees--nearly halfway to the forming temperature. Kydex is more pliable at higher temperatures, and brittle at lower temperatures, so on a 95 degree day the holster will flex considerably. How many of you have seated your weapon in its holster by pushing on the grip or back of the slide with your palm? That's all that happened. I seated the weapon with my palm and the kydex flexed enough to engage the side of the trigger, resulting in a discharge. Before anyone suggests that my shirt may have pulled the trigger, this was not the case. I was careful to clear my shirt from the holster before re-seating the weapon. I have tried to create a trigger pull inside the holster with a shirt and have failed on every attempt.

In regards to the comment of injured persons looking for someone to blame: the gun is completely factory. I have not tampered with any part or mechanism whatsoever. It is well maintained and has not been abused in any way. The gun is not to blame. I did nothing out of the ordinary. My clothing was not to blame. The holster has been examined by two military veterans with extensive firearms, and firearms retention experience, and was deemed to be the culprit after close inspection, and numerous attempts at recreating the incident. If I had done something idiotic or careless to cause this, I would not hesitate to say it was my fault. I will not share the maker of this holster for reasons previously stated. I will say, however, that this is not from a small time holster manufacturer.

Unfortunate things do happen, and we should all be prepared for them. I don't leave my house without a trauma kit containing a compression bandage, tourniquet, gloves, gauze, tape, and the means to create an occlusive dressing. Most of us are constantly around guns. Be prepared to treat a gun shot wound that could save someone's life, or yours.
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#14
(10-02-2011, 12:30 AM)SlapDaBass Wrote: First of all, I am that guy. Second, unless any of you are kydex experts, please refrain from making ignorant comments.

The holster was three months old and was made for this gun. I checked the fit, draw, and holstering well before the incident. I ran it through its paces at the range on numerous occasions, and there were no causes for concern. Upon closer inspection, the standoff from the trigger averages 2mm. Kydex is commonly formed at just over 200 degrees F. The day of the incident it was 95 degrees--nearly halfway to the forming temperature. Kydex is more pliable at higher temperatures, and brittle at lower temperatures, so on a 95 degree day the holster will flex considerably. How many of you have seated your weapon in its holster by pushing on the grip or back of the slide with your palm? That's all that happened. I seated the weapon with my palm and the kydex flexed enough to engage the side of the trigger, resulting in a discharge. Before anyone suggests that my shirt may have pulled the trigger, this was not the case. I was careful to clear my shirt from the holster before re-seating the weapon. I have tried to create a trigger pull inside the holster with a shirt and have failed on every attempt.

In regards to the comment of injured persons looking for someone to blame: the gun is completely factory. I have not tampered with any part or mechanism whatsoever. It is well maintained and has not been abused in any way. The gun is not to blame. I did nothing out of the ordinary. My clothing was not to blame. The holster has been examined by two military veterans with extensive firearms, and firearms retention experience, and was deemed to be the culprit after close inspection, and numerous attempts at recreating the incident. If I had done something idiotic or careless to cause this, I would not hesitate to say it was my fault. I will not share the maker of this holster for reasons previously stated. I will say, however, that this is not from a small time holster manufacturer.

Unfortunate things do happen, and we should all be prepared for them. I don't leave my house without a trauma kit containing a compression bandage, tourniquet, gloves, gauze, tape, and the means to create an occlusive dressing. Most of us are constantly around guns. Be prepared to treat a gun shot wound that could save someone's life, or yours.

So what you are saying is that you (albeit unknowingly)purchased a defective product to carry your firearm in.
There never was a bad man that had ability for good service.

-Edmund Burke 1788-02-15

Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live.
Life never forgives weaknesses.
-Adolf Hitler
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#15
You guys make my face hurt. How many of you draw and holster hundreds of times, unloaded, while putting pressure on the holster from every angle imaginable before you start using a holster? That's what it took for these guys to determine the holster was at fault. You are missing the part where I inspected the holster prior to use and found nothing out of the ordinary.
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#16
(10-02-2011, 01:23 PM)SlapDaBass Wrote: You guys make my face hurt. How many of you draw and holster hundreds of times, unloaded, while putting pressure on the holster from every angle imaginable before you start using a holster? That's what it took for these guys to determine the holster was at fault. You are missing the part where I inspected the holster prior to use and found nothing out of the ordinary.

Can't speak for anyone else here, but I Train drawing from my carry holster with my carry weapon loaded with snap caps a few hundred times a week. Sitting in a chair, Standing, Prone as well as sitting in my car (AKA: the carjack draw)

Now back to what I had originally said... breaking it down a bit more.

cause is not equal to responsibility

The holster caused it, I get that. YOU and YOU alone are ultimately reponsibly for your firearm and associated equipment. if it fails and results in a discharge, YOU bought it, YOU used it, YOUR Actions resulted in an ND.


If it goes BANG... its all you.

We old folks call it personal responsibility, have some.


There never was a bad man that had ability for good service.

-Edmund Burke 1788-02-15

Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live.
Life never forgives weaknesses.
-Adolf Hitler
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#17
I have personal responsibility. By your logic, if I were to purchase a brand new pistol, function test it, load a mag with factory ammo, fire it and have the barrel blow up in my face, that would be entirely my fault. All of my equipment is maintained, inspected, and tested. I understand how this could be difficult to understand as I would be skeptical if I heard about this. But, since this happened to me, and not you, I know that I was very careful and no part of me was at fault. I really wish that my shirt would have caused the discharge, or something similar, so I could be done with this and chalk it up as being careless. When I've examined every part of this incident and can rule out my gun and MY ACTIONS; of course I'm going to focus on whatever is left. Responsibility is a two way street. Where are the companies that stand behind their products? Especially, companies that manufacture safety equipment such as holsters. I did my part by researching well before purchasing this holster, inspecting it when I received it, testing it with an unloaded weapon, running it at the range, and visually inspecting it whenever removing it from my belt.
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#18
(10-02-2011, 06:32 AM)Byte Stryke Wrote: So what you are saying is that you (albeit unknowingly)purchased a defective product to carry your firearm in.

That or he purchased a product that became defective. I'm surprised at some of the comments here. Some seem to think that in some way this was his fault. It seems to me he did everything that everyone should do when buying a holster. This holster was made for his specific firearm and he still checked it out. There were no signs that the holster had any problems or was wearing out. Everything appeared to be in safe working order.

Maybe we should all stop at various times during the day to see if we can somehow make our guns fire while inside their holsters. Even if he did that I don't think this incident could be avoided.

AD's are few and far between. I would say this is one of those though.
Where can you carry? Check the editable COGO Carry Map
When in doubt. JFC.

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#19
(10-02-2011, 02:31 PM)SlapDaBass Wrote: I have personal responsibility. By your logic, if I were to purchase a brand new pistol, function test it, load a mag with factory ammo, fire it and have the barrel blow up in my face, that would be entirely my fault.

your RESPONSIBILITY
There never was a bad man that had ability for good service.

-Edmund Burke 1788-02-15

Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live.
Life never forgives weaknesses.
-Adolf Hitler
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#20
Facepalm
(10-02-2011, 04:53 PM)Byte Stryke Wrote:
(10-02-2011, 02:31 PM)SlapDaBass Wrote: I have personal responsibility. By your logic, if I were to purchase a brand new pistol, function test it, load a mag with factory ammo, fire it and have the barrel blow up in my face, that would be entirely my fault.

your RESPONSIBILITY

Facepalm I'll be sure to send all my barrels out for metallurgical and ultrasonic testing...
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