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Can a public school bar a person from visiting based on that persons religion?
#21
(02-24-2013, 07:52 PM)Ozzy Wrote: I think if you want to have your child visited by a pastor, you should enroll them in a religious based school. I also agree that having someone spend that much time at an elementary school, should be of some concern. If they are going to be there, they should be checked out. If I found out it was happening at my kids' school, I would be unhappy. On a side note, I don't think morality stems from religion. It stems from ones upbringing. It can be both genetic and cultural. For millennia, man has killed and persecuted in the name of religion. I think an open mind is best.

I think if you want to have your child in a public school they must be a atheist then. Public school is just that public and we all know the public is made up of all types of beliefs.Freedom is freedom know matter what your religious beliefs or opinions. I believe a lot of people don't understand that. The pasture has as much of a right to visit as a Muslim or atheist or ......
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#22
(02-24-2013, 07:52 PM)Ozzy Wrote: I think if you want to have your child visited by a pastor, you should enroll them in a religious based school. I also agree that having someone spend that much time at an elementary school, should be of some concern. If they are going to be there, they should be checked out. If I found out it was happening at my kids' school, I would be unhappy. On a side note, I don't think morality stems from religion. It stems from ones upbringing. It can be both genetic and cultural. For millennia, man has killed and persecuted in the name of religion. I think an open mind is best.
In this particular instance the pastor was visiting during the lunch break and was visiting with students that were part of his youth group at the church. Other students could talk to him if they so wished but he wasn't chasing kids around to preach to them.

As far as being checked out, he's been more thoroughly checked out than any person that goes to purchase a firearm through an FFL.
(02-25-2013, 07:46 AM)bufordtjustice Wrote: But which God were they talking about?

The God of the Bible of course. This country was founded with the belief that the God of the Bible exists. That as a Nation we would hold true the values that the Bible teaches and that a person has the right to worship as they see fit. They also have the right to not believe or to believe in a different god.
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#23
I would still love to here the real story on this,because if a pastor was thrown out of a public funded place for the only reason of being a pastor ,he would simply get a lawyer and said lawyer would write one letter to the school board and he would be welcomed back to the school with open arms.

Something Stinks!!!
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#24
(02-25-2013, 07:46 AM)bufordtjustice Wrote: But which God were they talking about?

Any God you want:

Athena
Zeus
Jesus Christ Superstar
Buddha
Allah
Gun-master, Lord of Firearms
GoPro video, Lord of small camcorders

Heck, worship a flea if you want...the term "god" can refer to who or whatever you wish to pray to. Either way, when 95% of the planet believes in some form of a supreme being, why do the 5% that live in this country get to strip the rest of their rights of expression because our founding fathers did not want the establishment of a specific religion?!?!?!
Jason Anderson
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#25
(02-25-2013, 09:50 PM)bufordtjustice Wrote: I would still love to here the real story on this,because if a pastor was thrown out of a public funded place for the only reason of being a pastor ,he would simply get a lawyer and said lawyer would write one letter to the school board and he would be welcomed back to the school with open arms.

Something Stinks!!!

Some people in this world still believe that grabbing a lawyer and suing everyone they can is not right, me included. I believe if he is a good pastor and a decent man this would be the case. If he isn't a good man I believe we would see the lawsuit Happen. Like you I would like the truth as well.
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#26
(02-26-2013, 12:55 AM)DGCJason Wrote: Any God you want:

Athena
Zeus
Jesus Christ Superstar
Buddha
Allah
Gun-master, Lord of Firearms
GoPro video, Lord of small camcorders

Heck, worship a flea if you want...the term "god" can refer to who or whatever you wish to pray to. Either way, when 95% of the planet believes in some form of a supreme being, why do the 5% that live in this country get to strip the rest of their rights of expression because our founding fathers did not want the establishment of a specific religion?!?!?!

Amen brother!
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#27
I am brand new here, and I know that it is often better to "hush and let the grown-ups talk" for a while before posting, but I may be able to cut through some of the fog in this one. Please be gentle.

With all that has been going on in the world right now, schools have become very jumpy about letting ANYONE on the campus who is not a parent or school abministrator. (a policy that I agree with and should be enforced everywhere imo.)

This may not be a religious issue at all, simply a school trying to increase security during troubled times.
Intent to commit self-defense is not a crime.
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#28
(02-26-2013, 09:01 AM)JohnnyZee Wrote: With all that has been going on in the world right now, schools have become very jumpy about letting ANYONE on the campus who is not a parent or school administrator. (a policy that I agree with and should be enforced everywhere imo.)

Respectfully disagree because it's not true. Organizations use schools for meetings in the evenings, etc. They're public buildings, meant for public use.

Parent-teacher conferences, PTA meetings, and many are used as polling places. All sorts of events where non-school adults are allowed.

And let's not pretend kids are always safe around teachers and school-related adults. Sure, the majority are good folk, but there's a new sex offender on the TV somewhere who was taking advantage of young people, every week.

If CBI and the 10th Circuit say the national databases don't have enough information to issue out of State gun owners a concealed weapon's permit, what does that say for the background check done on the teacher who just moved here this year, hmmm?

The policy is stupid. Fix the real security problems.
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#29
Fair points all, but most of those events are outside of normal school hours, kids are kept out of gyms when polling is going on, and PTA and parent teacher conference both include the word "Parent".

I am not saying that you can trust other parents, teachers, etc, but I am more trusting of them than people wandering in to hang out.

Regardless of what you own or carry, keeping strangers out of your house is always a good idea.
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#30
I work with schools for a living helping them raise money. I go to a new school to see about getting contact info for a sale. I get to the door and it's locked. Little sign says state your name after pressing the button. I press button and say my name, they don't know me. Beep the door unlocks, and I walk in. How can you say they tried to keep anyone out. The next school has front door locked with a sign that says enter through the playground door. I go around and excuse myself past 10 kids jumping rope to get in the building. Laws only affect us law abiding citizens. Criminals just break the glass and go in. Laws are only really made for lawsuits now.
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#31
(02-26-2013, 09:44 AM)JohnnyZee Wrote: I am not saying that you can trust other parents, teachers, etc, but I am more trusting of them than people wandering in to hang out.

So you're saying childless people are less trustworthy as fellow Citizens than those with children? ;)

I'm just playing Devil's advocate here. I agree that if you don't have business at a school, you shouldn't be there. But pastors and many others do have a reasonable reason in our society to be out in it.

Hypothetical: Can I be out on the school football field with my dog during school hours away from any kids and coaches who are out there or during periods where no one is using the field? (There's probably some silly law that adds no security value against this, but you can get my point.).

How about if I'm a parent of one of the kids? How about if I'm the estranged dad of one of the kids from a broken home, but it's not my week to see them?

The argument "parents only" at a school building, as if parents in our society are any safer toward their own kids, or worse, toward other people's kids or other parents, is pretty shaky ground, on a purely logical basis.
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#32
Agreed - just look at some of the "parents" at Wal-Mart. I've had to run out super late to grab something and they're the only ones open. So, I drop in, look for what I need and inevitably, some guy in a white stained tank top, his wife and their 10 kids (all screaming and screwing around with the displays) are shopping at 2am.

Are these parents somehow more qualified to be at a school than a pastor meeting with members of his congregation?

What about a couple who can't have kids for medical reasons and adopt - are they less of a parent?

What about a couple who can't have kids for medical reasons and can't afford to adopt - are they less qualified to be on school properties?

The logic and semantics here fall apart under scrutiny.

The simple fact is there is no legal rationale for prohibiting a member of the cloth to come on school grounds. Liberal logic run amuck (again).
Jason Anderson
NRA Instructor
Firearms enthusiast
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#33
Jason and Pilot, I hear your arguments and am forced to agree that there are plenty of so called parents who have no right to be anywhere near their own children, much less mine.(although Jason, you are getting a bit hung up on semantics so lets replace "parent" with "guardian" to make everyone happy :).)

The problem though is that Spiders' post is right on the money. The current "open door" policy that most schools have allows ANYONE access to the school. I simply don't think that is the way to keep kids safe.

"I get to the door and it's locked. Little sign says state your name after pressing the button. I press button and say my name, they don't know me. Beep the door unlocks, and I walk in. How can you say they tried to keep anyone out."

This should read "I get to the door and it's locked. Little sign says state your name after pressing the button. I press the button and say my name, they don't know me. A voice says "wait one moment sir, someone will be there to escort you to the office.""

It's not a law, but a policy of the school. Which one is going to be safer in the long run? Or, where would you send your kids?
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#34
The answer to all this is painfully clear. We should get rid of public schools.
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When in doubt. JFC.

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#35
(02-26-2013, 08:39 AM)Poisonspyder Wrote: Some people in this world still believe that grabbing a lawyer and suing everyone they can is not right, me included. I believe if he is a good pastor and a decent man this would be the case. If he isn't a good man I believe we would see the lawsuit Happen. Like you I would like the truth as well.

You don't get it ,he dosen't need a lawsuit only the threat of one and the Board would know they don't have a leg to stand on legally.

I think there is more to the story ,as in the so called "good pastor" did something, that is only a suspicion.
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#36
(02-26-2013, 09:39 PM)Beau Wrote: The answer to all this is painfully clear. We should get rid of public schools.

And what alternative do you propose?
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#37
(02-26-2013, 12:55 AM)DGCJason Wrote: Any God you want:

Athena
Zeus
Jesus Christ Superstar
Buddha
Allah
Gun-master, Lord of Firearms
GoPro video, Lord of small camcorders

Heck, worship a flea if you want...the term "god" can refer to who or whatever you wish to pray to. Either way, when 95% of the planet believes in some form of a supreme being, why do the 5% that live in this country get to strip the rest of their rights of expression because our founding fathers did not want the establishment of a specific religion?!?!?!

You don't belive in 999 Gods.

I don't belive in 1000 Gods so that makes me wrong in the eyes of a believer, I finally get religionRolleyesedit

So which one do you beieve in again, the flea or the small camcorder God?
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#38
(02-26-2013, 09:39 PM)Beau Wrote: The answer to all this is painfully clear. We should get rid of public schools.

And force "parents" to raise their own kids? That's just crazy talk!

Next you will be sugesting that exercise may be the cure for childhood obesity.
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#39
(02-27-2013, 04:30 AM)bufordtjustice Wrote: You don't get it ,he dosen't need a lawsuit only the threat of one and the Board would know they don't have a leg to stand on legally.

I think there is more to the story ,as in the so called "good pastor" did something, that is only a suspicion.

Correct and then there are principles in which great men once followed. I make no threat I would not enforce. Morals, values and principals have been left behind with common curtiousy, decency, respect and the land line telephone.
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#40
(02-27-2013, 06:20 AM)JohnnyZee Wrote: And force "parents" to raise their own kids? That's just crazy talk!

Next you will be sugesting that exercise may be the cure for childhood obesity.

Of course not there must be a pill they could take. Then another pill to fix that pills side effects. Followed by three more to combat the last one.

I sure like a good religious debate. Nothing wakes up a forum like religious talk. Remember I still like all of you, now back to bashing each others beliefs.
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