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Current and future gun attitudes in CO? - leadcounsel - 02-02-2018

Obviously I'm also pro gun. I'm a conservative Bush and Trump voter. I want to move to a solid Red state that is pro gun and also offers top tier outdoors activities like snowboarding, hiking, camping and so forth.

I lived in CO for 8 years. I moved away in 2006 for the Army. I'm free to move now and am looking around. I loved living in Colorado and when I lived there it was a solid Red state for two elections. Now, I live in a liberal state that constantly threatens gun rights. As I contemplate a move somewhere, I'm re-looking at Colorado.

My top choices now are probably Utah, Arizona, Idaho. Maybe Texas, Wyoming, Montana. Not much else other than giving CO another try. If it were a red state I'd move back without a second thought.

Depressing that it's now a purple/blue state with magazine restrictions. I can't ignore the law as I could lose my law license or be disbarred if I'm arrested. So "ignore the law" is not a good solution.

My friends in the metro-Denver area tell me that it has changed for the worse. Drugs, weed, illegals, liberals, Californians, and anti-gun attitudes. If it were localized to Denver, I could just go to the Springs. Some is apparently state wide.

I looked over at the current or recent legislation. A lot to wade through. Looks like a pile of gun laws for and against- so a constant big fight there. That's pretty much what I'm running from!

What's the ground atmospherics, and what is the prognosis?

RE: Current and future gun attitudes in CO? - cloudcroft - 02-09-2018

"What's the ground atmospherics, and what is the prognosis?" -- leadcounsel

IMO, it's not good. :-(

I tend to be pessimistic re: the future of gun-rights (and conservative/traditional American values) all across America, not just in CO, so at best it may stay steady being a purple state for a few years, but after that, who knows? Especially if Trump doesn't win a second term and that emboldens Democrats.

I don't see how conservative voters in CO (meaning Colorado Springs and many rural counties) can EVER outvote number-wise the many liberals in Denver, Boulder and Pueblo. So just as I don't see the liberals in general changing their voting (and their politics/values) from liberal/Democrat to conservative/Republican, I can't see how CO as a state can possibly become more conservative. Last Governor election, "we" couldn't even keep Hickenlooper from winning his current (2nd?) term. Sure, "we" got 2 state legislators recalled over that high-cap magazine ban (and a 3rd one up for recall resigned) but we couldn't stop Hickenlooper. How are "we" going to elect Republican Governors?

As for other states to consider for residence, I also have a few on my Short List: AZ, NM, TX (where I am now), and possibly VA. But THAT state may be going "South" (liberal/Democrat) given the new Democrat (IIRC) governor the people of Old Dominion elected (what fools). At best "conservative states" may become islands here & there in America eventually, surrounded on all sides by liberal/socialist Democrat states.

And as long as "immigrants" mostly (almost all of them, especially Hispanics) vote Democrat, as their numbers grow (legal immigrant or not, it doesn't matter as they mostly vote the same: Democrat), and more come in (again, legal or not doesn't matter), and more are born HERE, I see no future for the Republic Party unless it sells out and start pandering to those people as the Republicans adopt the "If you can't beat them, join them" philosophy I guess. If THAT happens, then it's all over for America (not just CO). Sad...

Still, after I'm done with what I need to do here in TX, I AM considering returning to that time (a few years, 3-5) we'll see what's up with that state: Still purple, or gone blue?

At least some other states look like they can hold out being red for a long time (AZ, WY, ID, MT, etc.)...but I still wonder if what we're seeing today is the warning signs (the water receding) of a Democrat/socialist tsunami sweeping the nation in the not very distant future. I HOPE not, but as mentioned earlier, not just CO 's political/social/cultural future looks in doubt (for the worse) but most of America's does, too.

On that UNhappy note, Happy Weekend!

RE: Current and future gun attitudes in CO? - Lead Junkie - 02-19-2018

To be clear magazines over 15 rounds are still legal to possess. They just can not be procured after the law went into effect. This does not apply to Denver. Their ban is enforceable.

I do not foresee positive changes being made. In fact it's going to get worse.

RE: Current and future gun attitudes in CO? - MarkS - 03-08-2018

oops.  Pushed the send button before writing a reply

RE: Current and future gun attitudes in CO? - MarkS - 03-08-2018

//What's the ground atmospherics, and what is the prognosis?//

Politically, as far as guns go and Republicans, Colorado is a lost cause, and it isn't limited to Denver. My wife and I attended our local Republican caucus on Tuesday and a total of 6 people showed up. One was our local Clerk and Recorder who defended her decision to require that anyone who enters her office must first submit to a search by an armed deputy and a metal detector. I guess she thinks buying license plates or getting a marriage license are volatile transactions that warrant a 4th Amendment violating search. And she's a Republican.

The Governor's race is stacking up to be half-a-dozen fighting with each other in a feeding frenzy primary while Polis walks away with the race. I've come to understand Republicans as preferring to defeat another Republican they don't like even it means putting a Democrat in office -- that's how we ended up with Hickenlooper and the California Lite gun laws that are essentially permanent, BTW.

Gun friendly conservative states in the west include Arizona, Utah, Wyoming and Kansas. Just before he enacted Constitutional Carry, my former boss in Kansas, Governor Brownback, was quoted as saying "Citizens should not have to seek permission from government to exercise their 2d Amendment rights." Both Kansas and Utah enacted laws that ban "gun free zones" in public buildings. The notion is that citizens have a right to carry anywhere, and will act lawfully without an armed guard looking over their shoulder, especially in public buildings that the public owns. That's why you don't have to be searched with a metal detector when entering the capitol in Utah, unlike Colorado.

RE: Current and future gun attitudes in CO? - leadcounsel - 03-13-2018

Thank you for the replies. From the low response on a Colorado gun forum, I guess the writing is on the wall. Colorado is a lost cause at this point. Very depressing from where it was just 15 years ago.

I believe that there are more conservative people but they are just too lazy to vote. They could vote, but they opt out for whatever reason.

Anyway, my mind is made up. I was holding out for the recent attempt in the last couple weeks to repeal the magazine ban. The Dems refused to reverse it.

Having said that, I'm not going to subject myself to living in a state marching toward totalitarianism regime that infringes on a fundamental right.

Colorado won't be my new home.

Peace be with all of you in Colorado. I strongly encourage you to fight, fight, fight. GET PEOPLE OUT TO VOTE to fix this. Otherwise you WILL face more gun restrictions and bans.

RE: Current and future gun attitudes in CO? - cloudcroft - 03-13-2018

Yes, the gun-owners of CO deserve any tragic fate that befalls them, primarily for "lack of interest" in the subject. But just saw some GOOD NEWS today -- which I hope is not only temporarily:

"No permit conceal carry" has passed the CO State Senate, even if by a hair. Has to get through the House. And then Hickenlooper has to sign it.

Okay...never mind...don't know WHAT I was thinking! ;-)

Still, if CO can hold out until the next Governor election, and elect a serious (not RINO) Republican, then maybe things can get back on track.

When I left CO (early September 2016), I was very disappointed (still am) in the lazy/apathetic gun-owners AND gun-carriers there. Yet when I left I knew that moving back to CO was always a possibility. Besides, if ALL conservative voters leave CO, then the liberals will have it TOO easy, yes?

But you know, we have PLENTY of the VERY SAME lazy and apathetic gun-owners/carriers here in the "Great" state of TX, and NM as well. Not sure about AZ though, but even THERE in Constitutional-Carry AZ maybe very few are willing to get involved actively.

So I'm thinking the next Governor election in CO should give us a clue which way the state is going...especially if the current "no permit required" bill fails -- even though it's nice to at least SEE some pro-gun stuff getting pushed I must say -- and there is NO high-capacity mag ban repeal.

Or maybe in the meantime -- so we don't have to WAIT too long -- we can RECALL Hickenlooper? That's what happened to 3 of the legislators who pushed the mag-ban. Why not recall the sorry Governor? Is that legally possible in CO? Even if it's a long-shot (!) we really don't know how many people would sign the recall petition...maybe more than we'd think? Then in the end it'd come down to the actual voting.

At least it'd show SOME Coloradans were trying to challenge the blue tide -- even if only with a few (but well-filled) sandbags. ;-)

-- cloudcroft
(President, Open Carry El Paso)

RE: Current and future gun attitudes in CO? - Lead Junkie - 03-14-2018

I think apathy is not always the right word. There is no doubt that active participation in media and in the debate side of the legislative process is severely lacking. The reasons stretch far beyond simple laziness though.

RE: Current and future gun attitudes in CO? - MarkS - 03-17-2018

(03-13-2018, 08:34 PM)cloudcroft Wrote: -- cloudcroft
(President, Open Carry El Paso)

In my county, Teller, which prides itself as pro-2nd Amendment, at the Republican county assembly where EVERY speaker bragged about how pro-gun they were, a resolution was proposed to remove the metal detector and guard at the offices of the Assessor, Clerk and Recorder and Treasurer.  In Teller county, the public is searched when they drop of tax payments or buy license plates, 'cause county officials are afraid of the public.  The general argument was made that a metal detector infringed on 2d Amendment rights to keep and bear arms (and the 4th Amendment right to be free from warrantless searches) and, at best, created only an illusion of security by creating yet another gun free zone where law abiding citizens are unarmed.  The proposed resolution was that elected officials ought to work to eliminate the TSA-like searches in county offices.

But, the resolution FAILED because the same group of stanchly pro-gun pro-2nd Amendment Republicans felt like they were safer by giving up their 2nd Amendment rights (and their right to protection from warrantless searches).  Said differently, "I'm a strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment, but will willingly give up my right to bear arms (and take away your gun rights in public offices) if government promises me security by searching me like the TSA." 

Sigh.  Colorado is truly a lost cause as far as liberty and gun rights are concerned.  Franklin warned many years ago, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

RE: Current and future gun attitudes in CO? - cloudcroft - 03-18-2018

IMO, part of the problem is what a real "Republican" is nowadays. What does that mean? What are their values/beliefs, the "planks" in their political platforms that make a Republican politician different than a Democrat politician (or a Libertarian, for that matter)? Are these held to be the very same/universal among all Republicans or, can they vary among them yet still be "acceptably Republican?"

If so-called "Republicans" can't accept the whole package (whatever it means to be Republicans), maybe they should either change parties or get kicked out of the party (have their "card" pulled). We all know about the disgraceful RINOs, but for Republicans who claim to be "staunch" they're behavior is all but "staunch." And why do other Republicans let their "colleagues" get away with such things?

As for gov't officials being afraid of the public, for many years now I've said the only reason any government should be afraid of its own people is when that government is up to NO GOOD towards its own people. So...what "no good" is the Colorado State Gov't up to?  A rhetorical question, if you will. ;-)

Will there come a point where MASS "civil disobedience" (CD) of some law(s) be used, as a last resort if politicians/voters can't change anything via "due/routine political process?" But CD would only work if huge numbers of CO gun-owners/carriers would participate. Given their lack of participation this far, it's not likely CD will work except on an individual basis (the stronger among us here and there)...but individuals can be dealt with easily (by "the authorities) as they occur. CD only works if large numbers of people participate so "the authorities" are overwhelmed.

Oh well, forget THAT then. I don't have any more "brilliant" ideas for CO...sorry! ;-)